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Oct 16

A Profitable System is Only The Beginning

It turns out I’m just a big floozy after all.

All a trading system has to do is give me wink and a smile, and I throw myself into its arms like it’s the answer to all my trading prayers.

You see, I’m ready to settle down.  I’m tired of the dating scene, and I’m ready for something more long-term, more committed.  I’m tired of short-term relationships that start well, only to find a plethora of annoying habits surfacing three weeks down the track.

It’s possible I’ve found my Forex-equivalent of Mr Right – a potential life partner that I could know inside out and stick with through thick and thin.  A method that will provide for me and my family.  But rather than taking it slow and getting to know it properly, I took it at face value and handed over my front door key.

On paper, my method looked great.  It was profitable, and more than that it was mine and I understood it.  What more could a girl want?

So I committed.  I had no reason not to – after all, it back-tested well, showed itself to be profitable and to start with things were going well.

But then the cracks started to appear.  It turned out that despite the fact that I googled its background, I probably shouldn’t have let it move in and settle down quite so quickly – because now that I’m involved on a daily basis, I’m starting to realise that it leaves its jocks on the floor and doesn’t even like red wine.

So you know it’s profitable, what more do you want?

Heaps. I want heaps more.

It’s really like saying a man is rich and handsome, what more could you possibly want?  Well, I like rich and handsome, but I also quite like committed, generous, kind, considerate, and a good cook.  Rich and handsome is great, but I need more.

My last round of testing consisted of 2 rows of data – the entry and the exit, based on 1 contract and a maximum of 100 pips risk.  Actually there were three rows, because then there was the net profit or loss.  From that I could calculate my average wins, loss and expectancy so I did get an idea about its performance, but that’s about it.

As I started trading my method with money, I realised with horror that my position sizing algo didn’t work the same way as I used to test.  Stupid, stupid, stupid – see what I mean about a floozy?  A wink and a smile.

So I’ve had to stop trading and head back to the drawing board.  I’m one step closer than I was, but there’s still a hell of a long way to go before I know my method the way I should.

Over the next 10 weeks, I shall be channelling my inner nerd – which incidentally is becoming more and more like my outer nerd, the longer I persist at this trading game – and will be testing a myriad of possibilities to get this thing going on once and for all.

So What Do You Need To Test?

Obviously the profit and loss is rather important, but as I found out the hard way, you also need to adjust it to reflect the actual position you would have taken given your account size and position size method.  I use a set dollar risk (R) and buy as many contracts as I can given that set risk.  However when I tested previously I didn’t account for varying contract size, which meant that what looked like a small loss in pip terms (when the initial stop was tight) could actually have been a 1R loss in real life trading.  Crap!

So testing with real position sizing is important, and I’m comparing whether using a set risk or varying risk with constant contract size works best.

Another thing that I failed to check the first time around is how the profits are spread out.  It’s brilliant that it’s profitable, but if it gives all its profit in one month of the year it makes eating a little difficult for the other 11 months.  Best to know that info before you start.

I did get a bit of a feel for the maximum drawdown in the last test, runs of losses and that kind of thing, but that in itself is a little scary.  A “bit of a feel” doesn’t cut it – not even close.  This time I will be formally testing it as well as creating an equity curve to visually display the results.  Yep, I’m hardcore ;)

I’m also testing to see if trading with the bigger picture trend makes a difference.  If it does, I’ll test whether cutting trade size in half when trading against that daily trend improves results.

Something that piqued my interest while I was trading was the idea that using an order to enter a set amount above or below the trigger (similar to what I do with equities) might improve results by cutting out signals that reverse instantly.  So that’s on the testing list too.

I’ve decided to note the times of both entries and exits to see if there are more profitable times to trade.  I’d already noticed that the majority of my triggers occurred in the afternoon or early evening, so it will be interesting to see if the real moves are more frequent in a given time.  With the FX markets trading 24 hours, I have no problem limiting my time to the best few hours – if they exist.

And the last thing – assuming everything else is in line – is to test whether pyramiding increases profitability.  I haven’t worked out any pyramiding rules yet, so that will come after all the other testing is complete.

My goal with this is that by the end of the year I’ll have a fully tested method – I repeat, fully tested method – in my hot little hands, ready to implement once my littlest guy is at full-time school next year.  I’ll still be actively trading my equities while I’m in nerd testing mode to make sure that I don’t accidentally never trade again.

Have I missed anything?  Please let me know in the comments!

***

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  • http://twitter.com/iofhorus i of horus

    good article – Read something from Malcolm Pryor today which I found of interest: … abstract below and full article link below that …I also tend to paper trade a new system in a demo account rather than backtest: I found this helps in reading the right-hand side of the chart

    How do you convince yourself a strategy has positive expectancy, or in other words, a genuine edge? Do you back test?

    There is a spectrum of views on back testing, ranging from the engineering mentality, which couldn’t trade without rigorous back testing, to the Market Wizard who stated that you don’t need to back test if you fully understand the logic of your strategy and how it should perform in all market conditions.If you imagine a scale where the engineering mentality is 100 and the other end of the spectrum is 0, I guess I am around 20. Many supposedly back-tested strategies turn out to be useless, since the back testing was curve-fitted to perfectly predict the past.I have strategies in production mode and in prototype mode. In prototype mode I typically paper trade for a while on a demo account, get 30 trades; then try out another 30 with real money but very small position size. Thirty is an often-quoted minimum sample size to provide meaningful data

    http://www.bullbearings.co.uk/traders.views.php?gid=2&id=218

  • http://twitter.com/PitVillTrader Pit Village Trader

    Hey Jessica, great post – although I’m struggling to come to the terms with the idea that my trading system could actually be something I was attracted too…now that you’ve mentioned it though, my current girl, October, is growing on me.

    No wonder I keep the wife out of the trading room…

    I won’t try and lecture you on anything about your trading style because you’re further along the curve than me anyway but what I will say is that even if you find Mr Right, you should always be aware of a mid-life crisis.

    Some of the most recognised ‘greatest traders from history’ were extremelt successful traders – until they went broke.

    Jesse Livermore, WD Gann and even Curtis Faith of Turtle Fame ended up broke and peddling books instead of trading.

    So my point here is if you do find Mr Right, keep him on his toes and keep things spicy!

    • http://www.roguetraderette.com/ Jessica Peletier

      He’s looking promising so far, just some fine-tuning and a cooking lesson or two ;) I had a peek at your blog – I love honest accounts, it’s so hard to find BS-less blogs out there.

  • Kevin

    The equity curve is crucial (with appropriately time-scaled MTM) so you have a valid volatility expectation, a curve charted from signal to signal doesn’t cut it. Also, make sure you have an appropriate cost/slippage assumption, this is especially importatnt if the trade frequency is high. Good luck!

    • http://www.roguetraderette.com/ Jessica Peletier

      Thankyou – what’s MTM?

  • Spreadbet Beginner

    I pyramid everyone the price breaks out of a set donchian channel. Works ok for me. I trade long term or medium so 50/200 cross is typical for me. Stops run along the underside of 80 day donchian. Pyramids come in if it breaks out the otherside. It’s just one technique of solo many. In all my back testing which sounds very similar to your journey I’ve found longer term setups more reliable but slower to return profit. However, I’d rather lower profits with less risk of losses against high profits but lots of losing in between. It’s a balancing act for what you can put up with I suppose against what returns you aim for.

    Good luck with it. You sound like your close to finding your setup each time you iron out those issues your coming across.

  • Stephen

    Learn to program and use trade station or multicharts etc. much quicker, more accurate. Short term pain, long term gain. Most people don’t though. It’s easier to draw a line on a chart

    • http://www.roguetraderette.com/ Jessica Peletier

      No lines on my charts, it’s a simple system but I like doing it by hand – perhaps it has its flaws, but it gives a great feel for the system which is important for me in terms of trading the thing.

    • http://twitter.com/TraderFoxxx Trader Foxxx

      Stephen is so right. If you want success you’ve got to use
      Tradestation or its equivalent, or better. Doing it by hand is cool, but doing
      it by hard coding your system into a programmable language will move you along
      the path of success much quicker than doing it by hand. Learning EasyLanguage
      (Tradestation’s programming language) isn’t the easiest thing to do, but once
      you’ve learned the basics you are much farther along the path to your goal of
      having a well thought out trading system.

      Then you got to be honest with yourself. Ask yourself what
      is my goal in trading this or any system? Simplify your reason(s) for being in the market. For most people the reason is to prove
      they are smart, to prove they were right, to prove that they predicted the move, to boast they were better than that other
      person & to stroke their ego. None of that stuff matters. What matters is
      how much money you make in the end. The only way to make money is to see the
      long-term trend and follow it. It’s that simple. If you agree with that idea,
      the only remaining question is; what is the best way to see the long-term
      trend?

      “The way to make money is to determine the trend and then follow it.” – William D. Gann

      • http://www.roguetraderette.com/ Jessica Peletier

        I like the last part of your comment – the first part makes my brain hurt :) Why am i trading? To allow me to be a mum while still contributing to the house hold income. To be able to provide generously to people who have nothing. To allow me the time to contribute to real people and relationships, rather than giving hours a day to a boss.
        That’s the core of the reason I trade. I used to get a kick out of telling people I’m a trader, but to be honest I can’t be bothered explaining myself anymore.
        Regarding LT trend, I’ve allowed for that in my testing, I’ll be interested to see how mcuh it changes my results.